Social media can get overwhelming really fast for most of us…so much so that we don’t know where to start or even how to know if we are wasting our time.
Here are 3 questions Andrew gets asked about how to better manage social media:
- How much time should I spend on social media every day?
- Can I outsource some of my social media activities?
- Which platforms should I be on?
Find out how he answers these questions when speaking or consulting to business owners.
Andrew: On today’s podcast, we’re talking about managing your time on social media. Hey everybody! This is Andrew McCauley. Welcome back to episode number 117 of the Autopilot Your Business podcast. Today we’re talking about managing your time on social media. How do you manage your time? Are you spending too much time doing it? Or maybe you’re not spending enough time on social media.
We are going to dig into probably three questions that I get asked more than ever about social media. I want to explore those, of course I’m not going to explore them by myself, because Heather Porter is with me.
Heather: Hi guys! Hello Andrew. How are you guys? It’s cool to hang out with you once again. Appreciate you being here with us and your ear buds where you are around the world. Which by the way, Andrew, guess what, we’re over in over 100 countries.
Andrew: Oh really? I didn’t know that.
Heather: Yes, I think we’re at 102.
Andrew: Awesome. What are the last two countries that we’ve been found in? Do you know?
Heather: I know Belize was one of them.
Heather: Yes. I’ve been to Belize. Cool spot.
Andrew: I know you have. I haven’t, but I’d to go there one day.
Heather: It’s a good place where you go cave diving and all sorts of cool things. I don’t know the other one. That’s the one that caught my eye though.
Andrew: Hello Belize! If you’re listening to us in Belize, thank you very much for doing that. Thank you for listening wherever you are in the world, as we dig in to episode 117. I love doing these podcasts. These podcasts are fun.
Heather: Me too! I like them because we always learn something about each other. I don’t know — I just kind of feel like I’m hanging out with you guys. Like I actually can picture you guys sitting in your car or cooking your dinner or going on the train into work, or whatever it is. It’s just fun. I like it.
Andrew: You know what else is cool is that podcasts are growing. There are people doing podcasts everywhere and you’ve chosen to be with us, so we thank you for spending your time with us; we hope that we can give you good value as we have a bit of a chat and explore the online world, the automation world, and all things in between.
Heather: Yes. Love it. So Andrew, what have you been learning? Soaking in, consuming lately?
Andrew: Well, I’m going to tell you something that… Let me frame before I tell you — that I’m looking at all this stuff from a marketing perspective —
Heather: Yeah right.
Andrew: Nothing else. And I have two young boys — four and six, nearly seven — who are loving it, but I’ve been checking out Pokemon Go. Uh-huh.
Heather: I have it. I do.
Andrew: Here’s what I’m looking at. I’m thinking it’s fascinating because if you haven’t got into the Pokemon Go craze then good on you; stay away. But seriously, from a marketing point of view, there are some really smart people out there doing some really cool things for their business — things like buying lures, which basically gives you a little Pokemon animal in your store or in your shop front, so that people come in and spend time with you. That really isn’t going to work if you’re just a shop where people walk in and walk out and they don’t buy anything and they don’t even look up from their phone screen. That’s not going to be much chop.
Where I am seeing some smart business owners are places where you’ve got to pay to get in. For instance, there’s a zoo just up the road from me here, The Living Desert Zoo. This week they’ve got a special Pokezoo Night. They’re charging ten dollars to get in; they’ve paid for all these extra little animals to go and find little Pokemons you can go and find. They’re probably going to get around 400 people to walk into the zoo.
Think about this — the zoo is normally closed. We’re in the middle of summer of course, so it’s hot, but at night time it’s going to cool down. They’ve paid a little bit of money to put these extra Pokemons out there. But they’re going to get 400 people at ten bucks a head — that’s just guessing how many they’re going to get; but I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s more — but they’re going to get an extra $4000 on an off-night because of this craze.
Heather: There are businesses all over in Australia, in Sydney as well, getting these lures, just like you’re talking about and — teens — whatever age range who’s into it, goes. Cafes are doing it and so they’re off on their hunt, and then they go into the cafe, they’re catching the Pokemon and then they go in to buy something.
Andrew: But do they? Here’s my question about that — do they? Do they actually go in and buy something? Or they’re like — hell, I’ve just got a new Pokemon; I’m going to go and get the next one — and they’re out the door.
So my point about this is —
Heather: Good question.
Andrew: — smart businesses who charge to get into their venue… Think about maybe street fairs, or concerts, or sporting events where you’ve got to pay to get in, and once you’re in there, there’s some extra bonuses for you. Once you’re in there. Maybe that will get people through the doors.
But all I’ve seen as far as the cafes go are — people walk in, collect their Pokemon and then they leave. So I’m not seeing — and I’m yet to be proven wrong — but I’m not seeing the people come in and buying stuff because of it. Maybe there is, but I am definitely seeing the results from people like the zoo who are charging people to get in, in the first place.
Heather: OK. Yes, I like that. Plus it’s creating that whole little safe environment as well, so there’s not like kids walking across the street. Like I was just saying to you earlier — I was looking out the window in my place. I’m just in the suburbs of northern beaches of Sydney and these two teen girls were standing on my lawn. They had their phones out and they were obviously catching a Pokemon right on my front yard. [laughs]
Andrew: Oh, I know. It’s crazy. I was at the park today. I was picking up my son from daycare, and I counted 20 people walking around the park chasing Pokemon. Ordinarily, that’s not a big deal. But I’ve got to tell you, in Palm Desert, it’s 44 degrees Celsius or about 112, and it’s hot as hell, but there’s people out there going — you know what; we’re going to go catch these little buggers. They don’t care about the weather; they’re out there chasing Pokemon.
So anyway, that’s me. That’s what I’m learning — Pokemon Go. How about you? What did you learn over this last little bit of time?
Heather: I from time to time do these little round table sessions, kind of mastermind mentoring sessions for a group here in Australia called Business Blueprint. I recently went to one and what’s cool about these is — I not only love to hang out with the business owners… Personally, I like to go for two things. Obviously I like to teach and share my knowledge, but I also can really in the span of one day really find out what the pain points are in online marketing for business owners. So I’m right there in it, and I can find out.
Another reason I like to go is the other mentors that are there. So during the lunch break all the “students” or business owners leave the room, and then we’re just left with the mentors and we’re all scrambling around to try and meet each other.
I met this really cool guy, Jeff Muller, and he is a trademark expert, basically. Really cool story about how he was building up his own IT company and then this other company came in and basically knocked him out because they owned the trademark for the name of his business. So he just had to walk away, which was horrible for him.
What I learned which is interesting, is there’s sort of three ways you can trademark or protect your business — you can protect your logo; you can protect your name; and you can protect your tag line. What he said was really interesting. There’s a lot of speakers and sort of consultants right now and what they’re doing is not necessarily trademarking their name — because it’s their name — but they’re trademarking the training that they offer and their products and the info-products and the membership sites and things like that. So they’re protecting distinct brands in their business.
It’s becoming bigger, especially when we’re all relying on online marketing and our IP and what we’re building online, it’s hard to not get ripped off. Interesting guy. Had a good conversation with him.
Andrew: Yes, wow, definitely, so maybe we’ve got to start looking at trademarking our brand.
Heather: I was loosely talking to him about some of those things, finding out if it’s worth it and all that. So stay tuned, guys, because we might have him on. I was even asking him, “do you like to be interviewed?” and he was like — oh, I love it.
Andrew: Really, OK, cool.
Heather: Yes, I think you guys might get some value from him, just thinking bigger about your business expansion.
Andrew: Definitely. Let’s kick in to today’s topic.
Andrew: Today’s topic is all about managing a time on social media. I’m speaking again tomorrow; I spoke again last week; you’re speaking all the time — we get questions all the time.
Funnily enough, the questions seem to fall in the same sort of categories. I know mine tend to be more social media stuff. Yours — and I think we’ll deal with yours in a future podcast — you’ve got a different set of questions, usually around website development and that sort of stuff, content marketing.
Mine is sort of hang around social media. So I thought what we’d do today is — I’ll give you the three questions that I get asked all the time, and give you some of my answers, but I want you to sort of jump in and say, hey, this is what you think too. These questions, if people are asking them to me all the time, then you listeners probably have either thought of these questions before, or contemplated what is the answer to some of these anyway. So I think we’ll dig into some of these questions and just have a bit of a chin-wag about each one. What do you think?
Heather: Yes, I love this. I absolutely love it, and I like that we’re going to break it into two as well, because like you were saying, there’s different themes or different angles from each. So yes, why don’t you jump in and share your first question and how you’d answer it and then I’ll sort of give anything that I would say additional, if there’s anything that I feel that you’ve left out. We’ll see how we go.
Andrew: First one is — how much time should I spend on social media every day? Get this all the time, especially when I’m teaching Facebook or Twitter. Let me just clarify, I’m teaching usually entrepreneurs or small business owners who are their business; they are it. They’re wearing all the hats and they don’t have a big team behind them. Because people that have a big team behind them usually get that that’s almost a full time job anyway.
As an entrepreneur or a small business owner, you’ve got to try and carve out some time on a daily basis to keep up with it all. There’s so many things to do. Being consistent is a key on social media. If you’re not consistent, then your audience start to know that and they’re not sure when you’re going to be back on line or when you’re going to be posting. One of the things that you want to do is try and be as consistent as possible. But you really got to look at — and this is going to go into a third question that I’m going to answer in a minute about which platforms to be on — but let’s say that you’ve chosen your platforms to be on.
You need to be adding value to those people on a consistent basis, but how long does that take every day? There are automation tools out there that let you do a lot of this stuff. But at the end of the day, there is still a need for you to be you. There’s still a need for you to be on there and engage with the people that are following you, and not relying on automated tools.
So whether you’re using Buffer or HootSuite or any of those tools, there is a reason for using those and there is a time when you shouldn’t be using those. That time is the time that you should be spending on social media.
How much time is that?
I’d like to get onto Twitter for instance, and I could spend maybe five to eight minute on Twitter and get what I need to do. I might do that twice a day — once in the morning and once at night. If I’m on Facebook, I really don’t spend a lot of time on Facebook. I get in there; I look at some friends updates; I don’t do a lot of posting on Facebook any more. I know that Facebook’s algorithm has changed a dramatic amount in the last four or five months. Even in the last couple of weeks. They’re giving me more of my friends news feeds, which is fine, and I’m not seeing as many pages that I like in my news feed and that’s all got to do with the algorithm and that’s got to do with why you should spend money on Facebook ads, but that’s another podcast all together.
So I get in there and look at my friends and interact with my friends maybe five or ten minutes a day; I don’t need to zip through too much more. Unless I’m sitting on the couch at night and I’m just sort of watching TV; I’ve got a device in my hand and I’m just scrolling, flicking through to see what catches my attention. But as far as the organic stuff on there, I’ll make sure that I’m answering questions on the different pages that I manage, and that doesn’t really take too long. I’m not getting thousands of questions a day.
Heather: That’s a good point. You just brought up something about the algorithm shift in Facebook and a big part of that is obviously Facebook Live, that they’re really giving precedence to those sorts of videos. That’s something, really, you can’t automate. Can you? You just have to jump in and do it.
Andrew: You can schedule live feeds, but you’ve still got to jump in and do the live thing. Right? You can’t record it and then schedule it; you can schedule the time it’s going to happen, and then you’ve got to turn up and hit the live button at that time, so you’ve still got to manually do it. You’re right. They are spending an inordinate amount of time trying to make Facebook Live work. So they’re giving that preference over and above other posts that are in your feed as well.
Heather: It’s really a mix. Isn’t it? So you’re looking at —
Andrew: The answer is for me — regularly I’m on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, a little bit on LinkedIn but not so much any more. I would probably say — in about 45 minutes I could do all of those pretty consistently and regularly, and I don’t have to be sitting at my desk; I could do it within 45 minutes and do it’s so that it’s consistent and it’s me engaging, not just an automated system.
Heather: So what do you say to somebody that asks you that question. It obviously would be different for different businesses. Right?
Andrew: Everyone. Totally. You’re right. It’s different for everybody; it’s different depending on the goals they want. If it’s just to be social, then you could spend five minutes on there; you don’t have to spend too much longer. If it’s to be really building brand awareness and really interacting — if you’ve got a big following and you’ve got lots of people interacting with you, you may have to spend a lot more time on there, too.
So it really does depend on the size of your audience, how engaged they are, how many questions you’ve got. I know a business that I was helping at one stage where they’ve got lots of complaints, lots of issues, and I have to spend a lot of time answering those and dealing with those. Because people now consider social media as their help desk.
Heather: Good point. That’s where most people are turning, and if you’re neglecting it, then your whole tribe takes off in a direction and you’re not even there to stand up for yourself.
Andrew: It’s at that point where you want to say — we need to get somebody in to help us control that. Because if you’re getting to a point where you’ve got to spend four or five hours a day on Facebook just to answer complaints, then something is going on that shouldn’t be and maybe you need to pay someone to help you do that, because that’s not a good use of your time.
Heather: One thing about the time management on social media that not only I know we’re looking at more of, but also just sort of a general theme — you’ll notice the big, long blog posts, especially in our site, we have a longer post that is around 3000 words with loads of images, and to really think about your social media time, you do have to plan it.
Like you are saying, you have chunks of the day that you look at it. But also if you’re using it for your business to grow your business and you’re going to do ads, then you actually have to plan out your content.
If you actually do that in such a way where — for example, one of our blog post is Five Steps to Automate Your Marketing; in that we have the five steps, but in each of the five steps — one of them we have a video; we have lots of images; we have case studies; we have a variety of multimedia, and if you’re actually reverse engineering your blog posts backwards and you’re thinking — what can I individually use as pieces of content that I can then post on social — suddenly you’re saving yourself a great deal of time. I say this to some people as well. They’re like — well, but part of that is I get confused about what do I post, and then I’m spending time trying to work that out.
Andrew: Yes, that’s a good point. The other thing I want to add to that, then, is — OK, I might not spend a lot of time on Instagram; I probably spend more time on Instagram than any of the other platforms, and I’m just looking through people’s feeds and photos and images and stuff like that. Let’s say that I only spend ten minutes a day on Instagram. That’s all good. I’m posting every day. I’m posting an image every day.
There is time in that image and if you want to count that as part of your social, then you’re adding hours. Because we’re creating specific images for our accounts with logos on them and calls to action and that sort of stuff. They are created images, not just snap of my phone and post an image, because otherwise you’d see my desk every day. [laughs] So they are specially designed, created images, so that’s taking time too.
If that’s going to be in part of your calculations of how much time, then you’re going to have to add some time to those numbers that I spoke about earlier.
Heather: OK. So that’s good. Any other points on that before we move on to the next question you have?
Andrew: No. That’s pretty much it. It’s going to depend on how much you want to be on there. But all I can say is, try and be as consistent as you can. Number two was — can I outsource some of my social media activities?
Heather: That’s a great question. I hear this too.
Andrew: I’m sure you do. The answer is “yes and no.” You can outsource. There’s a couple ways to outsource it. A) to a system, like a HootSuite or a Buffer, which is outsourcing it that’s going to be automatically doing it for you. Or you can outsource it to a person, which is something that I do recommend and don’t recommend. Because either people go full on and they outsource everything to a person that is not in your company or business, that may not even be in your country, who may not understand what you believe in, what you stand for, what your business is all about.
I really think that businesses that have social media managers have to have those social media managers inside their business or work extremely closely with them.
If that person who is doing your social media doesn’t know how your business operates, doesn’t know what your business looks like physically — even if you work at home, I still think it’s important to meet face to face to know exactly how you operate. Because without that knowledge, that’s when it becomes a dry social media platform for that person. There’s no interaction; there’s no life in it.
I’ve seen that time and time again. You see posts; you can virtually pick them — these people outsource it; these people don’t — because there is no electricity around that brand, if that makes sense. Does that make sense?
Heather: It completely does, and you made me think of a case study or an example exactly to illustrate this. There’s a business consulting company that I know of, and they outsource to a 24 year old girl — young woman — and… Let’s think through this.
They are trying to reach small business owners that have a bit of experience. Most small business owners mean we’re getting younger and younger entrepreneurs, but there’s sort of a median age, which is sort of… I don’t know — what would you say, Andrew? Starting from 30 to 50?
Heather: — for the median age. So anyway…
You have people with a bit of life experience. They’ve grown a business, they have pain points around the business. To have a 24-year old that’s fresh out of university that’s now trying to collate great information — which she was good at apparently, so she’s putting good articles — but it’s the wit and the conversation that was lacking. Like you were just saying, it’s the dry space. So she posts something and somebody would come in and ask a question and she would just Like it, rather than continue to have a dialogue around it, because she wouldn’t know what to say.
Andrew: I think they’re too scared. Because they just don’t know what… You’re right, they don’t know what to say, and they don’t know the “voice” of the company either. That’s often a big problem. They don’t know how to respond in the way that the company would speak.
Heather: Exactly, so when you’re outsourcing, it’s like… I think the best way is to do it — and we were just talking about this — you’re looking for somebody new — is for images, you can definitely do that. So you can get somebody that’s a graphics artist to do it.
For the voice of your company, be very careful about that because it’s a big mismatch for the brand that you’re trying to represent and put out there and perhaps if you’re doing trainings or you’re selling products or you have certain customer service there, to have it not match what’s happening on your entry points in your social media and just your normal dialogue. It’s going to confuse people.
Andrew: So the question then is — what can you outsource if you’ve got to do it all yourself.
Andrew: As you said, images. We get somebody to do our images for us. We give them a strict guideline of what we’re looking for and how it needs to be, and if they don’t do it properly, we send it back. So images can be good for everything — Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn, Instagram, Pinterest. So we use imagery everywhere we can. So that’s a big part of it.
Posting those images can be part of what they do. They are not responsible for answering and responding. We do not want them to. They don’t touch it.
They could be responsible for liking certain posts. We might give them guidelines on — these are the pages that we like, and these are the people that we want to follow. So go and find those; go and follow those people; go and like their posts, because we know that they put out good quality content and we’re happy to like their content.
So maybe we can do a little bit of that. We don’t do a lot of that, because we want to make sure we’re not just liking everything and anything, because that’s just ridiculous.
But there are a couple things like that that they can do. Sometimes they’ll set up some posts that we write. Some tweets we might write — a series of tweets — that are directing people back to our articles; we’ll get them to set those up manually inside a schedule program like a HootSuite, so that we know what’s going out. We give them the times that they go out and they go and they go and do that sort of stuff.
And manual labor that doesn’t need thinking or interacting, we generally get them to do that.
Heather: Brilliant. Anything else outsourcing-wise, what would you say? As far as the writing of content and the overall sort of messaging, you’d keep that in house then. Right?
Andrew: Totally. We’ve tried to do that. No, it doesn’t work. It’s terrible.
This is not just other countries. This is even people that are in our own country. It’s got to be really… If you can find someone who gets you then that’s great. Good luck, and use it. But the majority of the time, it’s very hard to find.
Heather: You can get a whole social media agency to do this that is specialized in this in your own country, but it’s going to come with a hefty price tag, and they’re really good at what they do.
Like Andrew was saying, you might be better off half outsourcing, and then understanding and learning and training yourself on social media to a point where you’re comfortable taking the reigns for the bigger messaging.
Andrew: Exactly. The third question I get about managing your time on social media is — do I need to be on all the platforms?
Andrew: There are so many platforms out there; do I need to be on them all? And the answer is “yeah; of course you don’t.” Seriously, you do not have to. This is a big question, because people are like — well, I’ve just got a Facebook page; I’m going to go and get a Twitter account and LinkedIn account; I’m going to get Pinterest and I heard of this thing called Snapchat and… bla-bla-bla… Musical.ly has come out and I’m going to get a Musical.ly account.
It’s like — whoa! Ease up. Here’s the thing — where is your market? Where are your target market hanging out? If they’re on Facebook, then that’s the first one you want to go and get. If they’re not on Facebook, then don’t go there; don’t waste your time.
If you’ve got a skateboard shop and your target market is 15 to 24 year old guys or girls, then maybe Snapchat is the market you want to be in. If it’s females 45 to 60 who like family nights and sewing, then probably Facebook is going to be your market. I’m not saying it’s only Facebook, but that’s where those demographics are hanging out.
You’ve got to know where your market is so that you can get to them. If you want to go and find 12 year old girls because you sell 12 year old girls’ clothing or whatever, then maybe Musical.ly is one of those places you want to hang out.
I’m not sure if you’ve seen Musical.ly lately, Heather, but —
Heather: I have.
Andrew: — holy crap, it’s full of full of kids! I’m talking kiddie kids. And —
Heather: Yes, they do like lip-syncing and then also singing as well. It’s kind of a new — what would you call it — “Idol” on an app.
Andrew: It really is. Just a side note — I met a lady the other night. She said — I’m a social media manger; my daughter is a heavy influencer in social media. I’m like “oh yeah? How old’s your daughter?” thinking this lady’s not that old. She can’t have an old daughter. She said “oh, she’s twelve.”
Heather: That’s amazing.
Andrew: She has 274,000 fans on Musical.ly. And I’m like — why? I looked at her account and I’m like — why? You’re nothing special. — but anyway… I digress.
So you’ve really got to know where your target market’s hanging out. Look at how much time — go back to question one — how much time do you have to spare, to spend on these platforms? If you don’t have a lot of time and you wanted to say, “I’ve only got ten minutes a day,” then pick one platform; pick the best one for you, and work on that one only.
Heather: A good point about that is — if you need to default to a solid social platform, for the most of us, it’s going to be Facebook, other than the younger, younger generation. The reason why is — it’s over 1.5B people; it’s the second largest “country” in the world. But it has an amazing Ads Manager, where you can be anybody and target anyone in there very quickly and very easily. So for the majority of business owners, you have at your fingertips a really easy way of accessing your perfect demographic — and spending a little bit of money to find them.
Whereas the other ones — Snapchat, there’s no ads on there, and it’s tricky for a lot of people to use.
Andrew: There’s ads on there now; it’s growing. But still, the market is still very young.
Heather: You have Instagram. Instagram has ads, which are really amazing that you can run through your Facebook Ads Manager, so that’s great. So when in doubt, I always think, go where there’s a big market and go where you’re able to spend a bit of money and make it quite easy to access your right market as well. So — like Facebook, like Instagram.
LinkedIn is — I know you have a really interesting opinions about this — we even tried placing ads a while ago on LinkedIn and it was really difficult to do.
I love what you’re saying about really think about your market. And if you have a default fall-back, Facebook is pretty good for all of us and then maybe pick a second one. It’s what I tell people, at least.
Andrew: One thing I want to add to this is — you want to test and measure, because you may think that you’re doing the right thing by spending your time on Facebook. Are you getting a return on that time you’re spending on there? Are you getting people to come to your website or people to buy your products or services? Because maybe it’s not the right market. Maybe it’s time to go and look at a LinkedIn; or maybe it’s time to go look at a Twitter, or something else, or Pinterest — because maybe you get a better return for your time invested there.
But you’re not going to know unless you measure it. Keep some records of it. You can use all sorts of things like, if you’re making sales for instance, or you’ve got Google Analytics connected to your website and that’s where you’re sending people. But once you know where it is, then don’t waste your time with other stuff, because that’s just going to be time-sucking your valuable time from your day.
Heather: So if I were sitting at your gig, and watching you speak and you’re about to leave stage, what would a few key themes or takeaway points based on these questions be that you would want to leave me with?
Andrew: Be consistent. Get on the right channel, the right platform first. Be consistent on that platform. Then find the things that you don’t need to do yourself, and outsource them, and outsource the right things; don’t outsource the wrong things, as we discussed.
Be consistent; find the right channel; and then, find somebody to help you with that time. You’ll find that you don’t have to spend a lot time at all on social and you can still get some really good results.
Heather: Nice. OK, I’m motivated; I’m pumped; I’m ready to leave this seminar and get going!
Andrew: Yay! Go and do it.
Heather: In all seriousness, those are really solid questions. I like that you’re not “shoeboxing” an answer, saying this is how it should be for everybody, because it’s not. It’s going to vary. Isn’t it?
Heather: — based on the business owner and what you’re targeting, what your business is all about.
Andrew: Absolutely. Definitely. Next episode, we’re going to dig in and ask your questions —
Andrew: — about the questions you get asked at all these events, because I know you get asked different questions. We both get asked the same questions, but yours seem to be a bit more because your content is a little bit different than mine. So I’m looking forward to digging in to those as well.
Heather: Yes. You guys are going to have to come back and join us, because we’re going to be talking a little bit more about websites in the next episode, and a lot of other cool little tips and resources I share with people so they go onto a blog post or they learn something, they’re not stuck thinking — ah! I don’t know how to do this. Where do I go? How do I get this done?
So we’ll answer a lot of those sorts of questions in the next one.
Andrew: Alright everybody. Good to be with you on this episode; look forward to seeing you on the next episode. If you can, share this with your friends or leave us a review on iTunes. We would love it.
Heather: It helps our podcast get seen by the world. Maybe we can get into 103 countries with your help.
Andrew: Alright H, thanks very much.
Heather: Thanks you guys.
Andrew: See you later.